Curse

Riot Narita · May 27, 2010, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

i don't think curiosity deserves a permaban.

They didn't get banned for "curiosity".
They got got banned for cheating.
They knew it was wrong. They took the risk. They paid the price.

snaek · May 27, 2010, 11:58 PM // 23:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot Narita

They didn't get banned for "curiosity".
They got got banned for cheating.
They knew it was wrong. They took the risk. They paid the price.

the point i was trying to make was the varying degrees of punishment. yes they cheated, but it was a minor crime and therefore deserves a minor punishment (like a tempban or stripping of inventory, etc).

Still Number One · May 28, 2010, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

.
i don't think curiosity deserves a permaban.

Yes it does. Everyone signed an agreement stating they would not do it. It doesn't matter when you did it, what you did it for, and how long you did it for. If you do it, you break the agreement. By that agreement you are subject to whatever punishment A.Net deems fit. In this case, the punishment was a permaban, and that is the risk you run for breaking a contract.

Black Metal · May 28, 2010, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

^read the link on the piece written by james phinney. they have "detection" methods that they don't want to reveal anything about. they have also increased the amount of support staff dealing with botting.

Yes, that's what they claim, and I have read Phinney's article. I'm wondering if we have first-person accounts or testimonials from people who have used pve bots such as I described above. As for increased staffing that could simply be operators who process /reports.

snaek · May 28, 2010, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Still Number One

Yes it does. Everyone signed an agreement stating they would not do it. It doesn't matter when you did it, what you did it for, and how long you did it for. If you do it, you break the agreement. By that agreement you are subject to whatever punishment A.Net deems fit. In this case, the punishment was a permaban, and that is the risk you run for breaking a contract.

there are far worse things deserving of a ban, and many of them have gone and still go unpunished. the way things are being run, it appears its better to have a mentality of not what you can do, but rather what you can get away with.

sixdartbart · May 28, 2010, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

there are far worse things deserving of a ban, and many of them have gone and still go unpunished. the way things are being run, it appears its better to have a mentality of not what you can do, but rather what you can get away with.

They didn't catch everyone who cheated so they shouldn't punish anyone?

nice logic

Still Number One · May 28, 2010, 12:21 AM // 00:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

there are far worse things deserving of a ban, and many of them have gone and still go unpunished. the way things are being run, it appears its better to have a mentality of not what you can do, but rather what you can get away with.

Anything that breaks the agreement is subject to a ban. Whatever you think the punishment should be does not matter in the least. A.Net is jury, judge, and executioner. If they deem something worth a ban, then it is worth a ban.

And here I can play the opinion game too. I think anyone who cheats should be banned no matter what. I don't care how, why, when, where, etc. You go outside the normal play of the game then you should be banned. I feel that way about everything, Guild Wars, Recreational Sports, Professional sports, School, anything. You bot in Guild Wars, you deserve to be banned, you use steroids in baseball, you deserved to be banned from the game and all your solo achievements erased, You plagiarize your research paper you deserve to be expelled from school.

Does my opinion matter? No, Because I have no authority over any of those things. Neither does yours for the exact same reason. You can voice your opinion all you want, and hope people from A.Net (who do have authority) will read it and agree with you, but frankly you have no power to decide what actually is an appropriate punishment for something you have no power over. They broke their agreement, they got banned. It is an appropriate punishment well within A.Nets right to do so, and Justice has been served.

cormac ap dunn · May 28, 2010, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

there are far worse things deserving of a ban, and many of them have gone and still go unpunished. the way things are being run, it appears its better to have a mentality of not what you can do, but rather what you can get away with.

I would say this is the start of those other things getting a ban. Is it making an example of botters? YES! Is it Harsh? In mosts opinion, not harsh enough, but in the end, was it justified, fair, and within Anets right? YES! i will assume that this fine example of what you CANNOT get away with will put some real and deserved fear into those that would break rules they agreed to abide by. if not, by all means do it again, Anet getting revenue from your new accounts feeds GW2 getting here faster!

Imaginos · May 28, 2010, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coverticus

As per update, global announcement on login:

Great. Now I've got this message:

"Your Guild Wars account has been terminated for using a bot or other 3rd party program."

Time for Grr Wars to commence.

I wonder how many of those 3,700 were unfairly banned and not bots. I know that Anet is not very good about differentiating between a botter and a normal person farming. Seen too many farmers get banned and have to go through hell to get their accounts back.

Zehnchu · May 28, 2010, 12:29 AM // 00:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

not everyone who was banned botted to this degree, yet everyone received the same punishment. someone who only experimented and tried out a bot once or twice perhaps not even earning more than 1k received the same punishment as someone who has botted "24/7 and having unlimited cash in their storage".

i don't think curiosity deserves a permaban.

I disagree they got permabanned because they chose to ignore the ToS/EULA. Some of those people have played from 5 to 3 years prior and knew full well what would happen if they where caught. They even had warnings about third party apps on the Login announcements. There was even a /report function added in so people could report botters. There were many warnings and people continued to ignore them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

furthermore, there have been many accounts that have used other cheats/exploits that have similar damage (pve-wise) that have gone unbanned. so the banning process has been very selective (almost random).

And there are people here who feel that Anet did drop the ball on that, they should have been banned and yet they were not. And Anet will have to do damage control when this mistake comes back to bite them in the a**.

freedom_razor · May 28, 2010, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Metal

Yes, that's what they claim, and I have read Phinney's article. I'm wondering if we have first-person accounts or testimonials from people who have used pve bots such as I described above. As for increased staffing that could simply be operators who process /reports.

There are ppl who used injection on multiple accounts and none of those accounts have been banned, if that answers your question. If you need more, most of the people banned, if not 100%, are the ones that were using easily available bots, in their default configuration, or the accounts logging in from the same IP as the the botting account, using available automation software [bot].

Nerel · May 28, 2010, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perkunas

(How about those permabanned from GW be banned from GWG forums, as their GW input will become outdated and no longer relevant?)

Oops, was thinking out loud again. Sorry.

Anyway, nice move to Anet.

Sorry, I have to disagree... as much as I despise botters and as much as I'm quite happy that Anet rolled out a large dose of the BanScythe... this isn't Guild Wars, this is a FAN FORUM... having an active game account is not a prerequisite of posting here, what's more, former players still have has much right to comment on the game as current ones do, that is, their opinions are no more or less valid than yours or mine.

Well, okay... they're less valid than mine, but I'm egotistical, that's not the point.

Rolain · May 28, 2010, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerel

Sorry, I have to disagree... as much as I despise botters and as much as I'm quite happy that Anet rolled out a large dose of the BanScythe... this isn't Guild Wars, this is a FAN FORUM... having an active game account is not a prerequisite of posting here, what's more, former players still have has much right to comment on the game as current ones do, that is, their opinions are no more or less valid than yours or mine.

Well, okay... they're less valid than mine, but I'm egotistical, that's not the point.

I agree with you, but to be honest, if they got banned for using a ruptbot in PvP, they should be banned from the internet forever

snaek · May 28, 2010, 12:44 AM // 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixdartbart

They didn't catch everyone who cheated so they shouldn't punish anyone?

nice logic

reading comprehension ftl. minor punishment for minor crimes, major punishment for major crimes =/= no punishment for anyone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by still number one

Whatever you think the punishment should be does not matter in the least. A.Net is jury, judge, and executioner. If they deem something worth a ban, then it is worth a ban.

i'm sowrie if i have little faith in anet/ncsofts competency. maybe if they haven't left so much other broken shit unchecked i'd be able to feel the same way you do.

Quote:

Does my opinion matter? No, Because I have no authority over any of those things. Neither does yours for the exact same reason. You can voice your opinion all you want, and hope people from A.Net (who do have authority) will read it and agree with you, but frankly you have no power to decide what actually is an appropriate punishment for something you have no power over. They broke their agreement, they got banned. It is an appropriate punishment well within A.Nets right to do so, and Justice has been served.

welcome to internet forums. if one is not supposed to voice opinion here, it'd be a barren place. did kj's botting petition have no bearing whatsoever on their recent actions? have not the ursan/sf/etc qq have no bearing on them becoming nerfed? honestly, your whole post is irrelevant; if you truly feel the way you do, then why the hell are you even posting?

Kumu Honua · May 28, 2010, 12:59 AM // 00:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

reading comprehension ftl. minor punishment for minor crimes, major punishment for major crimes =/= no punishment for anyone.

How would YOU verify between "I only botted for 5 minutes because I wanted to see what the hype was about" and "I botted on 10 accounts, but forgot to turn off the bot when I switched to my main account to transfer all my ill gotten gains..."

The answer is that you can't, and can you even take them at their word? They are cheaters. There's a reason Dante has the 8th level of hell comprised of the cheats and liars...

Hyperventilate · May 28, 2010, 01:06 AM // 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kumu Honua

How would YOU verify between "I only botted for 5 minutes because I wanted to see what the hype was about" and "I botted on 10 accounts, but forgot to turn off the bot when I switched to my main account to transfer all my ill gotten gains..."

The answer is that you can't, and can you even take them at their word? They are cheaters. There's a reason Dante has the 8th level of hell comprised of the cheats and liars...

You have a valid point I hadn't thought about. (The, "I forgot to turn it off on my main/side/mule/whatever).

I +1 this post for truth.

freedom_razor · May 28, 2010, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kumu Honua

How would YOU verify between "I only botted for 5 minutes because I wanted to see what the hype was about" and "I botted on 10 accounts, but forgot to turn off the bot when I switched to my main account to transfer all my ill gotten gains..."

The answer is that you can't, and can you even take them at their word? They are cheaters. There's a reason Dante has the 8th level of hell comprised of the cheats and liars...

That's right, you can't. Or?

That's why the punishment is scaled appropriately to the offence. And that is how it should be in this case too. And if it is not possible to judge the severity of the offence, the capital punishment should not be used in general. Just imagine if that happend IRL.

In game environment it is pretty easy to set a sane limit of gain of anything/per time unit. If you want to of course

Ka Tet · May 28, 2010, 01:43 AM // 01:43

My neighbor and I each bought the new Delorean, a very technologically advanced vehicle. When I went to start my car, some text flashed on the center console and an icon appeared on the touchscreen that said you must press here to start the car. I pushed the icon so that I could drive my new car.
I went out on the highway to see what my new car was capable of. I opened the engine up and was flying down the road.
Apparently, I must have zipped past my neighbor, because he called the Delorean company to tell them about my driving and they came and took my car away. Apparently the icon that I had to press in order to start my car gave Delorean the right to come and take my car from me if I broke any traffic laws or used the vehicle in any manner, which they generally did not like.
On a related note, I have a co-worker who put a "Gas, Grass or Ass" bumper sticker on his Delorean. They came and took his car away for two weeks. According to Delorean, they have the right to do this, because he pushed the button in order to start the car.

vamp08 · May 28, 2010, 01:47 AM // 01:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by tha walkin dude

My neighbor and I each bought the new Delorean, a very technologically advanced vehicle. When I went to start my car, some text flashed on the center console and an icon appeared on the touchscreen that said you must press here to start the car. I pushed the icon so that I could drive my new car.
I went out on the highway to see what my new car was capable of. I opened the engine up and was flying down the road.
Apparently, I must have zipped past my neighbor, because he called the Delorean company to tell them about my driving and they came and took my car away. Apparently the icon that I had to press in order to start my car gave Delorean the right to come and take my car from me if I broke any traffic laws or used the vehicle in any manner, which they generally did not like.
On a related note, I have a co-worker who put a "Gas, Grass or Ass" bumper sticker on his Delorean. They came and took his car away for two weeks. According to Delorean, they have the right to do this, because he pushed the button in order to start the car.

My power-drill vs screwdriver Metaphor was better. XD
A noble effort however.

Skye Marin · May 28, 2010, 01:49 AM // 01:49

I found some official word about Drunkard Bots:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Talk:Bot

Quote:

Sorry, but I don't really want to archive out an interesting discussion, Karlos. What assumption am I not sharing? That getting the Drunkard title is difficult and that the difficulty (or the repetition, or the "boring" factor) justifies the use of a bot program? If that's the question, then yes, I don't share it. I don't think that players should use bots. Our UA agrees. No matter the supposed non-impact on other players, or the defense that this bot is "harmless" or benign, is it really? Shouldn't titles be earned, not gained through wrongdoing? When some get a title through an exploit, that title may become more common, thereby diminishing the accomplishments of those who earn it through legitimate means. I know it's not a major anti-social act, not at all. But it is against the UA and it does have potential consequences.
In my opinion, botting does not become more palatable because there are fewer rewards in comparison to other bot uses. It's right, or it's wrong, and I feel it's wrong. But what I feel, as a gamer, isn't important. You ask if someone could be banned for the use of such a program. The answer is yes. That person could be actioned. The Drunkard bot is not as pernicious a botting for gold, but it's still a block-able offense. How you handle that on a guild level is entirely up to you. There's no guarantee that the person will be caught and punished. I would even go so far as to say that it is not a high priority to catch such a person. However, there's no guarantee that he will not be banned, and should a ban be put in place, there would be no legitimate appeal that would override it.
I'm awfully sorry if that sounds harsh or unreasonable. Hopefully the changes to the titles and the raising of other types makes it less likely that someone will venture down the bot path in the future, but I'm more than willing to hear your recommendations on this matter. --Gaile 06:54, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Clearly, using a Drunkard Bot or auto-clicker to enter and re-enter Fort Aspenwood is a serious offense and should be punished with the swiftest fury available. An earlier example was about that, and not progressing a prestige gold-sink title.

From what I understand and believe, if you use a Drunkard Bot or auto-clicking piece of hardware and give no reason to be reported by another player for it, there is a very good chance you won't be banned for it.

It's a low priority, and rightly so. Any Guild Wars player would prefer a spamming or leeching bot to be banned moreso than a player in their own guild hall performing emotes occasionally. If you disagree, your priorities are off. Would really you prefer less new content, if only the drunkard bots were all rounded up and given a stern warning?

I'll echo what other people have said, but no so cheekily: if you want to use or have used the Drunkard Bot to achieve the Drunkard title easier in the past and are still playing, continue doing that.

I'm currently stockpiling my alcohol. When it's full, I will use a drunkard bot for it's intended purpose, as I used TexMod for Cartographer, and GWx2 for trading Zaishen Keys and minis from alt accounts. That's my plan, unless I'm told my a Anet rep that I'm now on the radar, and at risk. In which case, I won't. Pretty simple.